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	<title>Comments on: Why Salik is going to work</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Suresh</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-3730</link>
		<dc:creator>Suresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 03:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-3730</guid>
		<description>Hi Vikram,
I live in Singapore and agree with you completely on your readings about ERP. I think what matters most is advanced planning and execution. Singapore plans 30-50 years in advance. Many projects that we thought are waste of money several years ago have proven to be well-planned strategies ahead of time. ERP is an ideal solution for a place like SIngapore. Each city should have a system that meets its internal requirements and challenges and at the same time should be scalable for next 30-50 or even 70 years. That's where Singapore has been successful, I guess.

BTW, I have a specific query. I had almost planned to invest in a property at The Greens. After reading your blog-post, I am having second thoughts. Do you think I should avoid buying a property there as it seems to be becoming a bottle-neck area for Salik-dodgers. Is Dubai RTA doing anything to avoid congestion around the Greens area? Your advise will be very valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Vikram,<br />
I live in Singapore and agree with you completely on your readings about ERP. I think what matters most is advanced planning and execution. Singapore plans 30-50 years in advance. Many projects that we thought are waste of money several years ago have proven to be well-planned strategies ahead of time. ERP is an ideal solution for a place like SIngapore. Each city should have a system that meets its internal requirements and challenges and at the same time should be scalable for next 30-50 or even 70 years. That&#8217;s where Singapore has been successful, I guess.</p>
<p>BTW, I have a specific query. I had almost planned to invest in a property at The Greens. After reading your blog-post, I am having second thoughts. Do you think I should avoid buying a property there as it seems to be becoming a bottle-neck area for Salik-dodgers. Is Dubai RTA doing anything to avoid congestion around the Greens area? Your advise will be very valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: Karan Mehra</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-697</link>
		<dc:creator>Karan Mehra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-697</guid>
		<description>Well no doubt about Vikram being correct and this is RTA's long term plan which i always had an idea about from the start and i very well support it to. But all these are future plans and there are current situations that make me a little ticked of with salik at times. I might be getting a little repetitive here but yes 4 Dhs is too steep a charge, because looking at the way cost of living is going up even 4 Dhs is too much for a middle class man. plus the implementation was too fast, they should have waited for floating bridge and other bridges and roadways to open up or even the metro so that people had enough options to travel from instead of clogging alternate routes or being forced to use salik unwillingly. 

But i guess the way Dubai grew something had to be done fast and the way businesses were suffering indirectly from traffic problem maybe waiting for some more time would have had worse outcomes. Thus all Rta can do is be less stylish in getting the best in the world and instead something more feasible in terms of time of development and the indirect tax put on the ordinary man to pay up for these developments because the more stylish n expensive a development is, the more we will pay in forms of salik etc. 

Plus Rta is compromising on parking space for these developments in roadways. They are selling off existing parking lots or other properties that are marked as PU (public utilities) to people who then use the land for some other purpose. This is a fact that might have not come into the public or media but i have seen quite a few of such examples. Now don’t tell me Rta is doing this is encourage less cars in road and stuff cause this is utter bullshit and they just financing their style stating developments.

Rest I still support their long term plan which is quite clear and looks successful but the cost and time factors are very crucial. Maybe like Singapore having timings on salik is a good idea and Rta trying to squeeze out their costs by various methods like salik, selling Parking lots or even thru registration costs of car or obtaining license which is all become so expensive to afford will upset people thus Rta needs to work out a good strategy on this too because the more expensive it becomes for people to live in Dubai, in the long term will affect the progress of the country and all these long term plans for developing Dubai that Rta is doing will suddenly seem useless. Thus all departments of the government need to work together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well no doubt about Vikram being correct and this is RTA&#8217;s long term plan which i always had an idea about from the start and i very well support it to. But all these are future plans and there are current situations that make me a little ticked of with salik at times. I might be getting a little repetitive here but yes 4 Dhs is too steep a charge, because looking at the way cost of living is going up even 4 Dhs is too much for a middle class man. plus the implementation was too fast, they should have waited for floating bridge and other bridges and roadways to open up or even the metro so that people had enough options to travel from instead of clogging alternate routes or being forced to use salik unwillingly. </p>
<p>But i guess the way Dubai grew something had to be done fast and the way businesses were suffering indirectly from traffic problem maybe waiting for some more time would have had worse outcomes. Thus all Rta can do is be less stylish in getting the best in the world and instead something more feasible in terms of time of development and the indirect tax put on the ordinary man to pay up for these developments because the more stylish n expensive a development is, the more we will pay in forms of salik etc. </p>
<p>Plus Rta is compromising on parking space for these developments in roadways. They are selling off existing parking lots or other properties that are marked as PU (public utilities) to people who then use the land for some other purpose. This is a fact that might have not come into the public or media but i have seen quite a few of such examples. Now don’t tell me Rta is doing this is encourage less cars in road and stuff cause this is utter bullshit and they just financing their style stating developments.</p>
<p>Rest I still support their long term plan which is quite clear and looks successful but the cost and time factors are very crucial. Maybe like Singapore having timings on salik is a good idea and Rta trying to squeeze out their costs by various methods like salik, selling Parking lots or even thru registration costs of car or obtaining license which is all become so expensive to afford will upset people thus Rta needs to work out a good strategy on this too because the more expensive it becomes for people to live in Dubai, in the long term will affect the progress of the country and all these long term plans for developing Dubai that Rta is doing will suddenly seem useless. Thus all departments of the government need to work together.</p>
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		<title>By: Arjun</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-525</link>
		<dc:creator>Arjun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-525</guid>
		<description>Couldn't agree with vikram  more. Very well said. Personally even I feel one of the most important reasons in implementing salik would be to encourage the use of public transport  by all classes of people. This would decrease the traffic congestion considerably and help the environment (one of the key issues mentioned in the Dubai Strategic Plan)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree with vikram  more. Very well said. Personally even I feel one of the most important reasons in implementing salik would be to encourage the use of public transport  by all classes of people. This would decrease the traffic congestion considerably and help the environment (one of the key issues mentioned in the Dubai Strategic Plan)</p>
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		<title>By: Ralf</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-465</guid>
		<description>Hi Vikram,

good thoughts. But:

- Singapore has a brilliant and diverse public transport system
- Singapore is much smaller and has shorter communiting ways
- Singapore has already a brilliant infrastructure

Dubai can't offer that, but what it can is taking money from people.

I am for road tolls, if implemented right. Look at Austria, Switzerland, France, Italy etc. They all have road tolls and different apporaches.
While you buy your tag in Austria and Switzerland with a validity of one year, Italy and France have usage dependent systems.
Dubai has a usage dependent system as well, but is not measuring the usage (distance wise). If I come from The Greens and take a U-Turn at MOE, I am charged 8 dhs, the same amount as if I go to the airport.

My advice would have been:

Charge something like 200/300/500 AED for a tag, whcih is valid for a year. With the tag you are allowed to enter the so-called congestion zones, without the tag you can't (or get fined if you do).

This way you can also go around to have all the hassle of recharging, running out of credit, registering etc. PLUS the government has the chance to decide on new "congestion zones" whenever they think it is appropriate.

What would you think about this? The other idea would be to have salik bridges on each and every entry and exit of highways (like in Germany for trucks). You pay for what length of street you use. You drive much, you pay much, you drive less, you pay less.

However, I have never seen a toll system on this planet, that charges you for entering AND exiting AND let you use the stretch in between for free??? Where does this logic come from?

Regards and have a great weekend,
Ralf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Vikram,</p>
<p>good thoughts. But:</p>
<p>- Singapore has a brilliant and diverse public transport system<br />
- Singapore is much smaller and has shorter communiting ways<br />
- Singapore has already a brilliant infrastructure</p>
<p>Dubai can&#8217;t offer that, but what it can is taking money from people.</p>
<p>I am for road tolls, if implemented right. Look at Austria, Switzerland, France, Italy etc. They all have road tolls and different apporaches.<br />
While you buy your tag in Austria and Switzerland with a validity of one year, Italy and France have usage dependent systems.<br />
Dubai has a usage dependent system as well, but is not measuring the usage (distance wise). If I come from The Greens and take a U-Turn at MOE, I am charged 8 dhs, the same amount as if I go to the airport.</p>
<p>My advice would have been:</p>
<p>Charge something like 200/300/500 AED for a tag, whcih is valid for a year. With the tag you are allowed to enter the so-called congestion zones, without the tag you can&#8217;t (or get fined if you do).</p>
<p>This way you can also go around to have all the hassle of recharging, running out of credit, registering etc. PLUS the government has the chance to decide on new &#8220;congestion zones&#8221; whenever they think it is appropriate.</p>
<p>What would you think about this? The other idea would be to have salik bridges on each and every entry and exit of highways (like in Germany for trucks). You pay for what length of street you use. You drive much, you pay much, you drive less, you pay less.</p>
<p>However, I have never seen a toll system on this planet, that charges you for entering AND exiting AND let you use the stretch in between for free??? Where does this logic come from?</p>
<p>Regards and have a great weekend,<br />
Ralf</p>
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		<title>By: hemlock</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>hemlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-457</guid>
		<description>vikram, your essay is well... "thought out", agreed, but except for metioning that salik tags will become a big brother-chip in the long run (tracing the vehicle's activity), it doesnt explain why salik had to be implemented NOW.

no one likes jams and most rational people would take alternative routes if avaliable. no one had heard of emirates road less than two years ago, and for the last one year ive been hearing about the "national paints roundabout" phenomenon... meaning people spilled over. people went further out to travel by dubai-bypass road... putting mileage on their cars, but saving on time. 

there just arent enough alternative routes available to make the system viable. what people have been screaming about is that moving a traffic jam from point a to point b doesnt eliminate the jam. in fact, point b might not have the capacity to hold that traffic, so the jams will get worse.

i took garhoud yesterday to see how effective salik is. garhous was clear, granted, but you step off on khwaneej, or itihad road... and it's the SAME THING! while it took me 1 hour to get home on pre-salik days, it now takes me 1.5.

alternatives? make a more efficient PTsystem. increase no. and condition of busses. allow car-pooling / paid pick&#38; drop. implement salik when &#38; if metro is operational. 
take areas like naif road, for example. you find niether parking, nor a road to drive on. will they put up toll gates there too, to solve congestion issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vikram, your essay is well&#8230; &#8220;thought out&#8221;, agreed, but except for metioning that salik tags will become a big brother-chip in the long run (tracing the vehicle&#8217;s activity), it doesnt explain why salik had to be implemented NOW.</p>
<p>no one likes jams and most rational people would take alternative routes if avaliable. no one had heard of emirates road less than two years ago, and for the last one year ive been hearing about the &#8220;national paints roundabout&#8221; phenomenon&#8230; meaning people spilled over. people went further out to travel by dubai-bypass road&#8230; putting mileage on their cars, but saving on time. </p>
<p>there just arent enough alternative routes available to make the system viable. what people have been screaming about is that moving a traffic jam from point a to point b doesnt eliminate the jam. in fact, point b might not have the capacity to hold that traffic, so the jams will get worse.</p>
<p>i took garhoud yesterday to see how effective salik is. garhous was clear, granted, but you step off on khwaneej, or itihad road&#8230; and it&#8217;s the SAME THING! while it took me 1 hour to get home on pre-salik days, it now takes me 1.5.</p>
<p>alternatives? make a more efficient PTsystem. increase no. and condition of busses. allow car-pooling / paid pick&amp; drop. implement salik when &amp; if metro is operational.<br />
take areas like naif road, for example. you find niether parking, nor a road to drive on. will they put up toll gates there too, to solve congestion issues?</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 18:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-447</guid>
		<description>Hi Vikram,
well, the government defenitely has to look at long term plans. Does that mean that they should not consider the current situation before they start something like salik?
All the approach roads to makthum bridge and shindaga tunnel were blocked today, the first day of salik. I wanted to get to garhoud  from Deira taxistand, but couldnt do it easily because all the approach roads to maktum bridge were jam packed and I had to pass all these areas to reach garhoud. With all these construction works and road diversions, this is not the best time to start salik.

Dubai need not necessarily get the singapore effect because singapore has far less number of vehicles on the road. Going in a car in singapore is a luxury whereas in Dubai it is a necessity at this point of time because public transport is inadequate. 
Climate is another disturbing factor and it cannot be compared to Singapore. This forces people to use their private vehicles. 
RTA surely lacks planning and Dubai Police had hinted this last month. It was very evident today as well when all the RTA buses ran late( my wife travels by bus everyday).

RTA could have waited for some more time!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Vikram,<br />
well, the government defenitely has to look at long term plans. Does that mean that they should not consider the current situation before they start something like salik?<br />
All the approach roads to makthum bridge and shindaga tunnel were blocked today, the first day of salik. I wanted to get to garhoud  from Deira taxistand, but couldnt do it easily because all the approach roads to maktum bridge were jam packed and I had to pass all these areas to reach garhoud. With all these construction works and road diversions, this is not the best time to start salik.</p>
<p>Dubai need not necessarily get the singapore effect because singapore has far less number of vehicles on the road. Going in a car in singapore is a luxury whereas in Dubai it is a necessity at this point of time because public transport is inadequate.<br />
Climate is another disturbing factor and it cannot be compared to Singapore. This forces people to use their private vehicles.<br />
RTA surely lacks planning and Dubai Police had hinted this last month. It was very evident today as well when all the RTA buses ran late( my wife travels by bus everyday).</p>
<p>RTA could have waited for some more time!!</p>
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		<title>By: Vikram Mohan</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-443</link>
		<dc:creator>Vikram Mohan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-443</guid>
		<description>I am glad you feel so. Only time will tell though how the system works out...... Not today, not tommorow, not next month....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad you feel so. Only time will tell though how the system works out&#8230;&#8230; Not today, not tommorow, not next month&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashok Atnerkar</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashok Atnerkar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-442</guid>
		<description>I agree, it is well said by Vikram.

Today, 1st July 2007, when Salik has started and people arrived late in office, everybody complaining about the system, the charges and at the backdrop of large scale discussion on radio, I was prompted to understand what have been global reactions to such moves. After reading Vikram's thoughts and other inputs on Singapore's ERP system, I am sure it's a step in right direction. I plan to give a project speech on this topic in my next Toastmasters Club meeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, it is well said by Vikram.</p>
<p>Today, 1st July 2007, when Salik has started and people arrived late in office, everybody complaining about the system, the charges and at the backdrop of large scale discussion on radio, I was prompted to understand what have been global reactions to such moves. After reading Vikram&#8217;s thoughts and other inputs on Singapore&#8217;s ERP system, I am sure it&#8217;s a step in right direction. I plan to give a project speech on this topic in my next Toastmasters Club meeting.</p>
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		<title>By: Vikram Mohan</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>Vikram Mohan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 05:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-419</guid>
		<description>Im not sure the Dh. 4 is a too steep a charge given the Purchasing Power Parity of UAE. 

Atleast it is a fixed rate and not variable like other such implementations where other external factors are taken into account.

Commentry on pricing  of ERP system of Singapore can be seen at http://www.cemt.org/topics/urban/Tokyo05/Yap.pdf

It makes some good reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im not sure the Dh. 4 is a too steep a charge given the Purchasing Power Parity of UAE. </p>
<p>Atleast it is a fixed rate and not variable like other such implementations where other external factors are taken into account.</p>
<p>Commentry on pricing  of ERP system of Singapore can be seen at <a href="http://www.cemt.org/topics/urban/Tokyo05/Yap.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cemt.org/topics/urban/Tokyo05/Yap.pdf</a></p>
<p>It makes some good reading.</p>
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		<title>By: bonk</title>
		<link>http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>bonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vikrammohan.com/blog/2007/06/20/why-salik-is-going-to-work/#comment-413</guid>
		<description>Yes, a thoughtful commentary on &lt;a href="http://www.dubaifaqs.com/salik.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;Salik&lt;/a&gt;. But does a 4 dh toll charge not seem rather steep?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, a thoughtful commentary on <a href="http://www.dubaifaqs.com/salik.php" rel="nofollow">Salik</a>. But does a 4 dh toll charge not seem rather steep?</p>
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